Played a recording of Johnson allegedly telling her to leave the country
The centrepiece of her evidence was a cellphone recording she made of a call with Advocate Andrea Johnson on 26 July 2026 - the day Johnson wrote to the National Director of Public Prosecutions asking to be released from her post. Played in open session, it captured Johnson saying of the commission 'it's going to be a shitshow', dismissing a legal point with 'this is Basic Law 101, I'm surprised you don't know it', and - on what Ramsamy should do if the commission called her - 'if they call you, leave the country'. The evidence leaders put it that Johnson had sought to devise a way for Ramsamy not to testify. Johnson did not know she was being recorded and has not yet answered the allegation from the stand; it is untested and she is presumed innocent.
Alleged 'Project Diversion' targeted Masemola and Khumalo
Ramsamy testified that Johnson personally spearheaded an investigation known inside the directorate as 'Project Diversion', aimed at national commissioner General Fannie Masemola and Crime Intelligence head Lieutenant-General Dumisani Khumalo, and she characterised it as an 'orchestrated attack' on the two police leaders. Masemola was charged on 21 April 2026 with Public Finance Management Act offences over the alleged irregular award of the R360-million Medicare24 contract; the Khumalo case was provisionally withdrawn by the NPA on 27 July 2026. The allegation is untested and everyone named is presumed innocent.
The suspect list on a pinkish-purple sheet
She told the commission that on 5 December 2024 Johnson handed her a list of suspects written on a pinkish-purple sheet of paper with the words 'these are the suspects, Chief and I discussed who is to be included' - 'Chief' being IDAC chief investigator Dylan Perumal. If accepted, the sequence would reverse the order a lawful investigation follows, with the suspects settled before the evidence. It has not been accepted; it is her account and those named are entitled to answer it.
A section 27 document that did not match the affidavit she was given
Ramsamy said she received a section 27 referral affidavit from Johnson on 5 December 2024 - the instrument that founds an IDAC investigation - and that a version of that document put before the commission during Johnson's own evidence differed from the one she had been given. She described her reaction as 'my heart dropped to my stomach'. It sits alongside the disputed 'A1' statement heard on Day 148, in which she was one of the two officials whose recorded voice notes challenged the paperwork. Untested.
'Flip-Flop, Knee-Jerk' and how instructions changed
She testified that IDAC staff nicknamed Johnson 'Flip-Flop, Knee-Jerk' because her instructions changed repeatedly through a single day, and that they changed after Johnson consulted chief investigator Dylan Perumal. She said Johnson constantly deviated from the directorate's standard operating procedures - the procedures Johnson had told the commission did not exist - and that it was easy inside IDAC to manipulate statements and to decide who the suspects were, how investigations should proceed, who the witnesses would be and what they would say. Untested; those named are presumed innocent.
'Let him lie at the portfolio committee' - an alleged perjury trap for Masemola
On Day 154 (5 August 2026) Ramsamy testified that Johnson instructed the team not to inform national commissioner General Fannie Masemola about several IDAC investigations before he appeared at Parliament's portfolio committee on police: 'Adv Johnson said that the national commissioner should not be informed of the investigation. She said the national commissioner would appear at the portfolio committee on policing soon and we should let him lie at the portfolio committee.' The purpose she described was that Masemola, kept ignorant, would give the committee a false account and could then be charged with perjury. Asked by Commissioner Advocate Sandile Khumalo SC whether this was a set-up for Masemola, she answered 'Correct'. The matters allegedly withheld included the disputed appointment of General Nosipho Madondo, the General Philani Lushaba matter, hotel and related spending, the Political Killings Task Team investigation and the protection detail of DA MP Ian Cameron - who has publicly denied any role in a plot against Masemola. Untested; Johnson has not answered it from the stand and is presumed innocent.
'It is a straight lie' - the 2024 section 28(13) application
Johnson told this commission she had not given Ramsamy the information or the names that went into a section 28(13) application in 2024. On Day 154 Ramsamy said she had, and when it was put to her that Johnson's version appeared untrue she agreed while naming the cost of doing so: 'at the risk of being very badly victimised when I get back to the office, it's a lie. It is a straight lie.' She said Johnson had 'thrown her under the bus' and that IDAC's wellness department had received numerous staff complaints about how Johnson treated them. She broke down while recounting a 2025 encounter with Johnson and the commission adjourned briefly. Untested.
Placed Mchunu in the route of a classified IGI report
On Day 156 (11 August 2026) Ramsamy testified that suspended Police Minister Senzo Mchunu bypassed the prescribed procedure to get an Inspector-General of Intelligence report on Crime Intelligence officers into IDAC's hands. The IGI had told IDAC in January 2025 that material from live investigations could not be shared; by September 2025, she said, chief investigator Dylan Perumal told her Mchunu had arranged for someone to fly to him in the Eastern Cape with a hard copy. The report was still classified when it reached Perumal and had not been declassified before he forwarded it to her by WhatsApp; he had called it 'golden' because it was believed it would help the case against Lieutenant-General Dumisani Khumalo. She said the Intelligence Services Oversight Act prescribes specific channels that were not followed, and described a January 2025 meeting at which Perumal became agitated and used 'cowboy tactics', after which IGI advocate Jayashree Govender declined to cooperate. Untested; Mchunu and Perumal have not answered it before this commission and both are presumed innocent.
Said Mchunu's office also arranged a flight for a forklift-probe witness
On Day 154 Ramsamy told the commission that in January 2025 Perumal said Police Minister Senzo Mchunu had arranged for a witness in the Crime Intelligence forklift investigation to be transported from Pretoria to the Eastern Cape to consult with him. Asked by Justice Madlanga what 'flown' meant, she said: 'I had assumed that the minister's office had paid for it, because I had later met this witness and he would not have been of financial means to have flown himself,' adding that 'all arrangements were made by Minister Mchunu for this witness to consult with Mr Perumal in the Eastern Cape.' It is the first of two occasions on which her evidence places the minister's office inside IDAC's logistics. Untested.