Hearing record

Day 154

5 August 2026

Evidence led by Advocate Segeels-Ncube

'Let him lie at the portfolio committee.' Ramsamy tells the commission the plan was not just to charge the national commissioner - it was to let him mislead Parliament first, so a perjury charge would be waiting.

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Awaiting portrait

The day in brief

What you need to know

Advocate Drushantha Ramsamy resumed her part-heard evidence and described an alleged plan to manufacture a perjury charge against national commissioner General Fannie Masemola.
She testified that Advocate Andrea Johnson instructed the team not to inform Masemola of several investigations before he appeared at Parliament's portfolio committee on police, and that they should 'let him lie' there.
Asked by Commissioner Advocate Sandile Khumalo SC whether that was a set-up for Masemola, Ramsamy answered: 'Correct.'
The matters allegedly withheld from him included the disputed appointment of General Nosipho Madondo, the General Philani Lushaba matter, hotel and related spending, the Political Killings Task Team investigation and the protection detail of DA MP Ian Cameron.
Ian Cameron has publicly denied any role in a plot to remove Masemola.
She said Johnson gave her the information and the names for a section 28(13) application in 2024 and then denied doing so before this commission - 'it's a lie, it is a straight lie'.
She testified that Johnson 'threw her under the bus' and that IDAC's wellness department had received numerous staff complaints about her treatment of them.
She broke down while recounting a 2025 encounter with Johnson; the commission adjourned briefly so she could compose herself.
On the Crime Intelligence forklift investigation she said chief investigator Dylan Perumal told her in January 2025 that Police Minister Senzo Mchunu had arranged for a witness to be flown to the Eastern Cape to consult with him.

Full coverage

The day, in depth

'Let him lie at the portfolio committee'

The central allegation of Day 154 was not that the national police commissioner was investigated. It was how. Ramsamy told the commission that at a meeting Advocate Andrea Johnson instructed her team not to inform General Fannie Masemola about several IDAC investigations before he was due to appear at Parliament's portfolio committee on police. In Ramsamy's account, Johnson said 'the national commissioner should not be informed of the investigation. She said the national commissioner would appear at the portfolio committee on policing soon and we should let him lie at the portfolio committee.' The purpose she described was to let Masemola give an account to Parliament that was false because he had been kept ignorant, and then charge him with perjury for having given it. Commissioner Advocate Sandile Khumalo SC put the word to her directly - was this a set-up for Masemola? - and she answered, 'Correct.'

What was allegedly kept from him

Ramsamy listed the matters she says were withheld: the disputed appointment of General Nosipho Madondo; the General Philani Lushaba matter, involving allegations of defeating the ends of justice and perjury; hotel accommodation and related spending; the Political Killings Task Team investigation; and the protection detail of DA MP Ian Cameron, chair of the portfolio committee on police. Cameron has publicly denied any role in an alleged plot to remove Masemola. Her characterisation of the whole exercise was blunt: 'It looked and became evident that there was a line of march and that line of march was to get generals Khumalo and Masemola in an accused box.'

'A straight lie'

Ramsamy also confronted Johnson's account of a section 28(13) application from 2024. Johnson had told the commission she did not provide Ramsamy with either the information or the names that went into it. Ramsamy said she did, and when it was put to her that Johnson's version appeared to be untrue she agreed without qualification, while naming the cost of saying so: 'at the risk of being very badly victimised when I get back to the office, it's a lie. It is a straight lie.' She said Johnson had 'thrown her under the bus', and told the commission that IDAC's wellness department had received numerous complaints from staff about how Johnson treated them.

The adjournment

Recounting a 2025 encounter with Johnson, Ramsamy broke down in the witness box and the commission adjourned briefly to allow her to compose herself. It is worth recording plainly what she is doing: a serving state advocate is giving evidence against the person who ran her directorate until three weeks ago, and she has said in open session that she expects to be victimised for it when she returns to the office. The commission had already indicated on 1 August that it was prepared to arrange protection for her following her Day 151 evidence.

The forklift, and a flight to the Eastern Cape

Her evidence also touched the Crime Intelligence forklift matter - the roughly R1 million forklift a supplier was paid for but never delivered, which formed part of the investigation into seven officials under 'Project Diversion'. Ramsamy testified that in January 2025 IDAC chief investigator Dylan Perumal told her that Police Minister Senzo Mchunu had arranged for a witness to be transported from Pretoria to the Eastern Cape to consult with him. Asked by Justice Madlanga what 'flown' meant, she answered: 'I had assumed that the minister's office had paid for it, because I had later met this witness and he would not have been of financial means to have flown himself.' She added that 'all arrangements were made by Minister Mchunu for this witness to consult with Mr Perumal in the Eastern Cape.' It is the first of two occasions on which her evidence places the minister's office inside IDAC's logistics; the second, the IGI report, came on Day 156.

In their words

Key moments from the record

“Adv Johnson said that the national commissioner should not be informed of the investigation. She said the national commissioner would appear at the portfolio committee on policing soon and we should let him lie at the portfolio committee.”

Ramsamy on the instruction about Masemola. Advocate Drushantha Ramsamy to the Madlanga Commission on 5 August 2026, describing an instruction she attributes to then IDAC head Advocate Andrea Johnson. Untested; Johnson has not answered it from the stand and is presumed innocent.

“It looked and became evident that there was a line of march and that line of march was to get generals Khumalo and Masemola in an accused box.”

Ramsamy on what the investigations were for. Advocate Drushantha Ramsamy to the Madlanga Commission on 5 August 2026. Untested; General Fannie Masemola and Lieutenant-General Dumisani Khumalo are presumed innocent, as is Advocate Andrea Johnson.

“At the risk of being very badly victimised when I get back to the office, it's a lie. It is a straight lie.”

Ramsamy on Johnson's account of the section 28(13) application. Advocate Drushantha Ramsamy to the Madlanga Commission, agreeing with the chairperson's observation that Advocate Andrea Johnson's version appeared to be untrue. Untested.

“I had assumed that the minister's office had paid for it, because I had later met this witness and he would not have been of financial means to have flown himself.”

Ramsamy on the witness flown to the Eastern Cape. Advocate Drushantha Ramsamy to the Madlanga Commission on 5 August 2026, on what she says IDAC chief investigator Dylan Perumal told her in January 2025 about the Crime Intelligence forklift investigation. Untested; Senzo Mchunu and Dylan Perumal are presumed innocent.

Our analysis

The bottom line

Day 151 alleged that the suspects were chosen before the evidence. Day 154 alleges something structurally worse: that in one case the offence itself was to be manufactured. On Ramsamy's account, Masemola was not to be charged with something he had done - he was to be kept ignorant, allowed to give Parliament an account that was consequently false, and then charged for giving it.

That allegation, if it were ever accepted, would reach beyond IDAC. It would mean a parliamentary committee was to be used as the instrument for creating the offence. The archive states it as what it is: one witness's account of an instruction, given under oath, denied by nobody yet because the person it concerns has not been recalled.

The 'straight lie' exchange is the moment the two accounts became irreconcilable. Johnson told this commission she did not supply the information and the names for the 2024 section 28(13) application. Ramsamy says she did. Both cannot be right, and both are on the record of the same inquiry. That is why the evidence leaders moved for a Rule 3 notice and a recall.

Ian Cameron's name appearing on the list of matters allegedly withheld from Masemola has already produced a public denial from him, and the archive records the denial alongside the allegation. Nothing on this day is a finding. Everyone named is presumed innocent.

Analysis is the archive’s own comment on the public proceedings, grounded in the record above. It weighs the evidence and the process; questions of individual guilt are for the courts and the commission to decide. Everyone named is presumed innocent.

On the record

Who testified this day

Testified · part-heard

Advocate Drushantha Ramsamy

State advocate, Investigating Directorate Against Corruption (IDAC)

View profile →

Follow the threads

Who Advocate Drushantha Ramsamy connects to

Her former head; she testified against her

Advocate Andrea Johnson

Ramsamy worked under Johnson at IDAC on the Crime Intelligence docket. Across Days 151, 154 and 156 she played a recording of a 26 July call in which Johnson allegedly advised her to leave the country rather than testify, gave evidence that Johnson drove 'Project Diversion', and described an alleged instruction to 'let him lie' so that General Fannie Masemola could be charged with perjury. Johnson has not yet answered; untested, both presumed innocent.

View profile →Prosecuted the case against him, then testified about how it was built

Lieutenant-General Dumisani Khumalo

Ramsamy was a state advocate on the docket that charged the Crime Intelligence head. Her Day 151 evidence was that the suspects were settled by the directorate's leadership before the case was made. The NPA provisionally withdrew the charges on 27 July 2026. Untested; all presumed innocent.

View profile →IDAC colleague on the same docket

Colonel Brian Padayachee

Both worked the Crime Intelligence matter - Padayachee as lead investigator who defended it across Days 139-141, Ramsamy as the state advocate who has since given evidence about how it was assembled. Padayachee was suspended on 30 July 2026 pending a disciplinary process; a suspension is not a finding and he is presumed innocent.

View profile →The other official on the Day 148 recordings

Mantsha Robert Raphesu

Ramsamy and Raphesu are the two IDAC officials whose recorded voice notes, played on Day 148, disputed the authenticity of the 'A1' statement. Both later testified in person - she on Day 151, he on Day 152. Raphesu told the commission she had said she was under instruction not to give the investigating team documents. Untested; both presumed innocent.

View profile →IDAC colleague who also says the case was wrong

Advocate Peter Serunye

Serunye, a Deputy Director of Public Prosecutions, took over the Crime Intelligence prosecution and testified on Day 153 that it was premature and that the corruption charge did not hold. He and Ramsamy give parallel accounts from the prosecuting side of the same docket. Untested.

View profile →Named him in IDAC's logistics twice

Senzo Mchunu

On Day 154 Ramsamy said Mchunu's office arranged a flight for a forklift-probe witness; on Day 156 she said he arranged for a still-classified IGI report to be carried to IDAC's chief investigator in the Eastern Cape. Mchunu has not answered either allegation before this commission; untested, presumed innocent.

View profile →The officer she says was to be trapped into perjury

Lieutenant-General Fannie Masemola

On Day 154 Ramsamy testified that Johnson instructed the team to keep Masemola ignorant of IDAC investigations so he would mislead Parliament's portfolio committee and could be charged with perjury, and confirmed it amounted to a set-up. Untested; all named presumed innocent.

View profile →Disputed the 'A1' statement attributed to him

Fadiel Adams

Ramsamy is one of the two IDAC officials whose recorded voice notes, played on Day 148, disputed the authenticity of the supplementary 'A1' statement attributed to Adams and filed by chief investigator Dylan Perumal. Adams has since publicly called on her to release an almost two-hour recording she holds of him. Untested; both presumed innocent.

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In the room & on the record

Counsel, the panel and sources

Evidence led by

Advocate Segeels-Ncube

On the panel

Justice Mbuyiseli Madlanga (chairperson)
Advocate Sandile Khumalo SC

Sources

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